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TOPIC: Oxcylinic Acid

Oxcylinic Acid 06 Jul 2019 17:17 #58586


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Has anyone used this before and if so can you please assist as I am currently experimenting with this but are having some difficulty in the administering.

It comes in powder form and is rather expensive.

It is very effective against gram negative bacteria and is part of the quinolone group. Yet I have has better results with it than with Baytril.

On a recent swab taken lab results for the first time came back and noted Baytril as "intermediate" alarmingly so.
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Oxcylinic Acid 06 Jul 2019 18:21 #58587


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Neville

This is a very easy and accurate way of administering medication that is developed for absorption through the gut.

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Oxcylinic Acid 06 Jul 2019 20:13 #58588


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Thanks Pieter,
I have been using this method but it remains difficult with this medication. And my results were not as good as expected.

I then reverted to treat via a IP injection and this showed very good results the following day. Had to use quite a thick needle and you have to be fast otherwise it clogs the needle.

I will now get some of this special powder that was recommended to me that will keep the solids of the oxolinic acid in suspension. DMSO Dimethyl sulfoxide or Natrium hydroxide.

Over the last few months I have been unsuccessful in treating this specific issue and have lost a few very valuable fish. Currently I have 6 tancho's and one shiro that I am working on.
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Oxcylinic Acid 06 Jul 2019 20:17 #58589


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here is some photos.

On the Tancho I realy have done everything I could. Swabs taken, antibiotics injected as recommended to no avail.

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Oxcylinic Acid 06 Jul 2019 23:07 #58590


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Hi Neville

A quick search on DMSO use in diluting oxolinic acid has revealed the following sentence in a study, which I have copied and pasted:

For quinolones (oxolinic acid and ciprofloxacin), coincubation with 5% or 7.5% DMSO suppressed lethality by 10- to 100-fold .

In this study, it was shown that DMSO added to oxolinic acid actually reduced its effectiveness/lethality by a lot. Even at 1% dilutions, it still reduced the effect of oxolinic acid on bacteria, in this case E.coli.

Can you not use a newer generation quinolone? Perhaps you could post a copy of your culture results here for us to look at.

I have not looked into sodium hydroxide yet - will see if I can find something tomorrow if I get a chance, but I wouldn't use DMSO....


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Oxcylinic Acid 06 Jul 2019 23:45 #58591


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Just thinking about NaOH (sodium hydroxide). This is a highly alkaline substance - it's not called caustic soda for nothing. I suspect it would be very irritant to the body as well, and could cause a fair bit of damage to the coelomic cavity of the fish if injected IP as a diluent for oxolinic acid.

Personally, I would stay very far away from NaOH.......

I see that a study using cell cultures has used oxolinic acid diluted in 47% ethanol, which did not appear to damage the cells. Perhaps this could then be further diluted in sterile water for injection.

Of course, you are now compounding (or mixing) drugs, which is unknown territory, and potentially dangerous.....
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Oxcylinic Acid 07 Jul 2019 08:04 #58592


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Steve, many thanks for this, I have to go out to a new pond build and will take this up with you a bit later. Thanks.My source did come back in the meantime to say that DMSO is not the best option so your statement confirms that.
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Oxcylinic Acid 09 Jul 2019 19:47 #58593


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Well today I decided to invest in a heater for this QT pond.

Installed a 2KW heater this morning, Temps were 9C and this evening the group is swimming around and at least look happy. Temp now at 16C.

Gave them a few pellets and they immediately took it.

Maybe the warmer water will help me pull them through.
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Last Edit: 09 Jul 2019 19:48 by neville.
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Oxcylinic Acid 09 Jul 2019 21:26 #58594


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That's an excellent idea. Of course, it's a basic principle that you've known for years - colder water equals poor immune response - and with electricity prices the way they are, nobody wants to particularly run a 2Kw heater 24/7, but I think this will make a big difference.

Good luck!

Steve
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Oxcylinic Acid 10 Jul 2019 07:17 #58595


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Temperature plays a huge part of the recovery process. It is a major factor.

At low temperatures the koi's metabolism is very slow as is its immune system.

Recovery will take time in colder water.

If you are going to heat a quarantine tank - insulated it first.

Starting with the floor and walls, then a cover. Even get a solar blanket cut to float on the surface. You will be amazed at the energy saved.

You will use 50 - 60% less energy to heat the water to a required temperature and keep it stable with insulation.

Chris
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